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Talk:Chara/@comment-36073590-20180704133156/@comment-33883848-20180810152650
And its time to analyze the tapes one after one because there's too many misconceptions about them: " I... I don't like this idea, Chara. Wh.. what? N-no, I'm not... ... big kids don't cry. Yeah, you're right. No! I'd never doubt you, Chara. Never! Y... yeah! We'll be strong! We'll free everyone. I'll go get the flowers." Contrary to the popular belief its doesn't seems like Chara used shame to convince him. In fact the "yeah you're right"its a weird thing to say when you agree to something, he would say something like "yeah okay we will free everyone"instead if Chara's remarks about his tears convinced him(that would definitely be a manipulative tactic since its wouldn't give choice for Asriel and because its a underhanded, abusive, tactic contrary to the persuasion ) . Plus if Chara knew that he would go along with the plan with shame they wouldn't use monsters's freedom as argument. So the "yeah youre right"seems to be a response to "so you cant cry" And Since he says "yeah! Well be strong we'll free everyone" after Chara ask him if he doubt of them, its again implies that his will to not doubt of Chara is something that convinced him. And if his will to not doubt was Chara's mean to make him agree, then Toby wouldn't make them use monsters's freedom as argument. And If Chara knew which tactics are effective to use, something required for manipulation, they would only use his will to not doubt of them as its something that definitely convince him latter. And the "I'll go get those flowers"seems to be his own initiative as otherwise he would say "yeah I will go get those flowers"to indicate that its was something Chara asked him. Chara tried to persuade him by saying that they will free everyone which is a fact(there's enough proofs that indicate that Chara plan was to free everyone).Its also gave him the possibility to refuse to free everyone, that doesn't force him to follow the pIan. It would be a manipulation tactic if it's was a lie that would force him to follow the plan but the fact is that its seems to be genuine goal, which mean that they didnt choose this tactic to force Asriel to go along the plan, they used a fact to try to persuade him("try"because what convinced Asriel is his idolisation) "(Toriel) Chara.. Can you hear me? We want you to wake up... (Asgore) Chara! You have to stay determined! You can't give up! You are the future of humans and monsters..." Here Toriel and Asgore tries to wake up them desperately, which proove that Chara is already not conscious here (while they will remember Asgore's last words ) "(Asriel) ... Psst... Chara... Please... Wake up... I don't like this plan anymore. I... I... ... no, I said... I said I'd never doubt you. Six, right? We just have to get six... And we'll do it together, right?" Upon seeing Chara suffering, he change his mind about the plan. He shows ZERO indication that Chara wake up when he encouraged them to(also Chara didn't wake up when their parents tried so, so I don't think that Asriel would and Asriel would be reassured if Chara did wake up here) and since he says "I don't like this plan anymore "to show why Chara should wake up, its seems like he talking with a dead Chara , after all there's not really indication that they talk in those tapes contrary on the others where its clear that they talk rather theres that Asriel talk with a dead Chara( the first lines). So Chara didn't seem to ask him whatever he doubt of them or not to force him to go along the plan here.Plus Chara used monsters's freedom to convince him in the previous tapes so I don't know why they would use his idolisation here So its seems like Asriel's final decision regarding the plan was completely deliberate, in fact noone convinced him at the very end, even his first agreement seem to been related to his will to not doubt of Chara and not to monsters's freedom, something Chara used as argument. Chara's reason was related to monsters's happiness "Seems like everyone is perfectly happy, monsters returned to the surface, peace and harmony will rule across the land take a deep breath there's nothing left to worry about "(Flowey talking to Chara after pacifist run's credits). That definitely indicate that all Chara wanted is realized on the pacifist end(monsters's happiness)